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Talk goncharenko centre 2025-3-23: Seeing life in Ukraine in a more positive manner + work group on for example business ideas

Short overview goncharenko-2025-3-23-overview

I will place here the post event summary with what I planned and talked about due to the big deviation from the original planned topic. I will probably remove the parts of the topics to which I didn't get round, to a separate page (not just remove those, but to keep them for reference).

16:30: Ask attendees what else would be interesting topics for upcoming meetings

See the main page for possible topics. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Actual start ca. 16:40, various people arrived late so I decided to wait a bit.

Then I talked a little about the previous talk about how to see problems, regret, worrying in a different light.

Next about suggestions for possible topics next time. This took longer than expected, a sort of mini discussions :)

One woman suggested relationships, dating. Yes, that was already on my list, and last time I talked with 1 woman about such issues for example that you need to feel good, if there are arguments, stay apart for a while. I mentioned a saying that I read several years ago that can be applied to family towards whom you may feel obligations: "Be there for others, but never leave yourself behind".

Then what about religion, what is the point, is it useful or not? Someone said that this could be an issue, some people may find it offensive to discuss their religion. Well, perhaps, but I said that people should be able to discuss everything. Some opinions about religion and faith: Religion is the organisation, faith is your belief. That is true, but in practice they are mixed. I stated that the essence of religion is wisdom of life, and people who want to oppress others are annoying. One woman felt a bit annoyed, perhaps even scared, from someone from a religious group wanting to talk to her, following her. I stated my view that a religion, well one's beliefs, can be a reassurance for some people to fall back on when they are dealing with problems in life, believing that all problems have a purpose, and that in the end all will be well. This view of a emotional support that faith can give, some people spoke up about it, they felt the same.
[ I think this is an interesting topic so perhaps combine this with relationships next time ]

16:35 Overview of the essence of the previous talk/discussion, from 2025-3-16:

The plan was to talk about the following:

I will go over the points from the previous talk, they are of use in general and these points are how I live and they explain some of my views on life in Ukraine.

So my list of life is about happiness, not worrying, not being afraid etc. and at the first meeting one woman asked me whether I was ever depressed: Yes, I had that in my secondary school days. This was strange to her, but that time was for me not just about enjoying life as it may have been for others, not a care free life because I wanted to get somewhere, go study physics. I felt the whole school system was too slow. At school I was bored to death and as I only had 1 friend at that time my experience of this time was different than for most children. I was more happy during the time of studying physics at university. I never had real depressions after school. I felt a bit down sometimes, which went away quickly which means that my desire to be busy with work and hobbies quickly returned.

This to me is logical because when you are out of school you are more in control of your own life, whereas in school you are really guided through life and barely have choices except for sports/hobbies.,

Reality: Most of the above was skipped. I continued back on track with this:

Perhaps in another meeting I can go over people writing self-help books and groups doing meditation, why in my view they fail at making all this clear to everyone. They cannot properly explain what is needed to make people realise why exactly 'problems' should not be problems, but should be considered simply a task (like a simple school homework assignment), nothing more, and the complete overview of course if about not just 'the now' but the past and future and I mentioned why it doesn't make sense to be negative about the past ('regret'), nor the future ('worrying')

I will give 1 example, about "The power of now: A guide to spiritual enlightenment" by Eckhart Tolle, this review on amazon.com [ Note I fixed some typos that made it hard to understand what some words were supposed to be, so I fixed that by showing words struck through like this which are the incorrect words from the review, then the words after them are the correct ones from the book ]:

1.0 out of 5 stars make belief
Reviewed in the United States on October 17, 2017
Verified Purchase
P.64 "Ultimately, this is not about solving problems. It is about realizing there are no problems. Only situations - to be dealt with now, or to be left alone and accepted as part of the "isles isness" of the present moment until they cane change or can be dealt with."
...
"Focus you your attention on the Now and tell me what problem you have at this moment."

My problem at this moment was that I was reading this book, a book that believed if I rename a problem and call it situation it will all be better. I dealt with this "situation" by closing the book.

This book came highly recommended, so I was really curious. As the author states in the introduction (paraphrased) "some people aren't ready for his wisdom yet and he hopes to plant the seeds". So in his mind I'm "not ready", while in my perspective there were no seeds of wisdom in this book.
46 people found this helpful

I said in the meeting that this review was hilarious, but also that it is wrong. What Tolle says is correct but he cannot properly explain it! This is what I am doing very differently in my approach in my list of life. I want to explain why these people cannot do that in detail in a future talk in which I discuss why people writing self-help books and making self-help videos on such topics, and groups doing meditation etc. cannot properly explain why what they say makes sense. This is a very important point!

I wanted to go over points from the previous talk, but there wasn't time so didn't get round to this except stating that worrying is a waste of time, regrets the same, and problems you can look at differently.

Negative emotions are signals that you need to make a change in your life (change = take some action, or change your thinking).

How to look at the past, and not have regrets: Each time you think about the past:

How to look at worrying (with a 'problem'), each time you have problem:

Worrying has been reduced to having a 'problem', so then we can continue: How to look at 'problems' as not problems but challenges, so not something negative but simply life, something to which you need to find a solution, nothing more. No negative feeling.

There are 3 stages to go from seeing 'problems' to 'just something I need to deal with':

You can also look at negatives as positive. A woman whom I knew years ago made a comment once about love: "If you love someone then you will love someone's bad qualities". I later realised it was correct, and it is not just accepting bad qualities, but it can be actually appreciating them, which may seem strange but these are examples with which I feel it:

Note that the 2nd point does not mean that I want to smell cigarette smoke all the time! :) I mean that the occasional smell of cigarettes walking on the street is negative for me in NL, and positive for me in Ukraine...

We talked instead about this: One woman asked whether I had family, well not in Ukraine, and she felt that worrying was normal for her, having children, at the start of the war. Yes, it is normal, but it is better to not worry, because it doesn't help you, it doesn't help your children, it only makes you feel bad. Just make decisions on what to do in life, and being not worried means you are likely to make better decisions, especially not rushed decisions... Now you may think that I couldn't imagine what it is like, but I can. I can imagine myself in the position of others and emulate their thinking. But also I had a sort of similar situation, not as grave, but the same issue of worrying vs. not worrying about someone for whom I cared, which was this: It was with my former friend 'M' from Kharkov, I helped here when she was working in the UK, with her employer, with getting better treatment of workers (from e.g. Ukraine) there. We also discussed various things in talks (viber/telegram), then around the time she was finished with her work time in the UK, she had 2 problems: 1) She lost access to her card with her earnings. I suggested to send money if needed (e.g. via western union), but I didn't hear more on this. Then she had an issue missing her flight after we talked about her going to NL instead of directly back to Ukraine. With that I wanted her to have the opportunity again of being in a very different type of atmosphere than with her parents and her friends. I didn't know she was vaccinated against Covid 19, then I think she could have come to NL without problems, she didn't tell me, so I made a different suggestion to get around the problem and she probably didn't like my suggestion/workaround. So I worried in a sense but I realised that I could do nothing and because I didn't hear anything from her I simply let it go. I sent a reminder some time later and then learnt she was back in Ukraine...

Question: Did you try 'not worrying' etc. from the last meeting? (and what you could read again on these pages)

Didn't get round to this:

So, not worrying, not seeing problems as negative (but only as a challenge). If you tried, did it help? I will ask again the next meeting.

16:40 Talk/discussion of 2025-3-23: Seeing positives in life in Ukraine: My view as a Dutchman

I wanted to talk about this but I actually talked mostly about a few things such as interesting places, colourful buildings (green roofs, yellow roofs, blue roofs, and the buildings themselves green, yellow, and various pastel colours), and bus stops, for example on my bicycle trip the day before to Kozelschchina.

This is just a brief view on the issues in NL and what I see as better in Ukraine, to do it justice I think I need 2 hours. But this week is a brief recap of my "List of life" + views on Ukraine and the Netherlands only for the purpose to make you see the positive points of Ukraine.

Last time I mentioned the colourful buildings in Ukraine and someone said "Really?", which comes I think from not realising it from seeing it every day. For example the building next to this building is yellow + white. I don't think I've seen anything like that in the Netherlands...

Pictures to compare:Pictures from Hungary, Poland the Netherlands, Ukraine.

On the train to Przemysl on 7 January 2025, I talked to a student who was studying in Poland. I talked with him about various topics and told him what I like in Ukraine.He was positively surprised and it made him look differently at various aspects of Ukraine. In the previous talk of 2025-3-16 this happened with some people too when I talked about what I like in Ukraine, which were part of what made me decide to live in Ukraine, and I want to do that more in this talk/discussion. At each point you want to ask something or feel you need translation, raise your hand so that Vlad can help. I encourage others beside those attending to help also when this is useful.

An example of a difference between NL and Ukraine: In Ukraine you can go outside a city and a few km or perhaps 10 you have many places to relax in nature, have a picnic or barbecue. You can go swim in rivers. In the Netherlands there is not much wild nature, it is mostly 'created' or 'maintained' as people want it to be. You can generally not allowed to swim in rivers because of for example the rivers being used for transport ships but also there is often not a good place to go into the river, such as a sort of beach.

First question: what do you think is better about life in the Netherlands, or other countries in western Europe?

I sort of know the answer, it will be about money, the economic situation, and from that: Quality of life.

But is life really much better there? Well, it depends on your mindset, on what you want in life.

A big problem in the Netherlands is that it is densely inhabited which has resulted in housing shortages and very high prices of land. There is more opportunity in Ukraine by saving for some years then buying land to use for growing crops or to build your own house.

Rules are very strict in the Netherlands, much less so in Ukraine which again gives more freedom, personally but also in business.

There are also issues in society itself, such as women becoming too much like men: Women wanted to be so much equal to men that they became like men in various aspects. This doesn't seem to have happened in Ukraine, possibly because women never had to fight for equality, feminism in a sense wasn't needed and there is something very important in feminism: Think about this: Feminists were trying to achieve something, but for whom?

Question: What do you think is the answer?

The reason has to do with people for whom they are trying to make changes: Do they actually care about those people or do they care about the ideals? It is the same answer as with many people/groups who want to improve the world, they care about ideals, they do not accept different views and do not understand that people need different ways to live according to personality but also according to being a man or woman, because men and women are very different. This is what makes it interesting but what can also make life difficult, precisely the differences can and do cause misunderstandings...

The result of this is also a mindset that is to focussed on work, in particular for women. Women are different than men, and parts of psychology the psychologists know this, in other parts of psychology they think this is something caused by how you were brought up (as a boy or girl), which is total nonsense as can be shown with easy examples. [ experiments with gender neutral upbringing, 46 XY DSD 'women' in sports ]

An issue in the Netherlands is that people seem to never have any time free. I've seen wedding invitations to a relative, for 6 months ahead, that stated "We don't know yet where it will be, nut keep this date free", because otherwise people are busy with hobbies, sport, and they don't seem to want to give those up.

In Ukraine people have a closer relationship with family in many cases, in the Netherlands it is more distant. The family gatherings I visited were mostly negative. People whining about various issues in life, while having everything they want.

This topic is really complex and I prepared a long talk for 2018 in Kharkov, which my friend 'M' was supposed to arrange then, and I think this could be an interesting talk/discussion, but I will need to think a bit on what to tell, and what is useful/interesting for you. Note that I am interested in any feedback, questions, criticisms. You can contact me via email or other methods and give your views or ask mine on anything, that would be useful because I am trying to get as close as I can to the truth, to reality, so I want to improve my understanding.

A few examples of interest/disinterest: In the Netherlands on a long bicycle trip, with 37 kg of luggage in 4 bags, 2 on the front, 2 on the rear, + a back pack, there was barely any interest from Dutchmen, whereas people in Germany asked me where I was going. But in Germany for example asking for water at a house, the woman who came out was very hesitant, what was she thinking, that I might rob her? I didn't ask but if you approach people they are more reticent, not like in Ukraine. Another time a few people were helpful, for example one guy mentioned a mountain cabin where I could stay the night and he mentioned the next morning there was a possibility to get some fresh milk or something. I felt bad one day, stomach issue, and was relaxing, lying in the grass and someone came over to ask whether I was ok. In Poland people seem different again from Ukraine, not smiling and having fun so much as I see here everywhere, in parks, people sitting outside near a cafe etc.

I want to show in this section some interesting places in Ukraine and compare a little with the Netherlands. What I particularly like are old mosaics on buildings and bu stops, but also painted bus stops, murals, etc. The variation in bus stops is amazing: One in a style that makes me think of Hawaii in Berdyansk, one in Japanese style in in Bila Tserkva (*), some are painted in various places, many have mosaics in many different styles from simplistic to very intricate with even 3 dimensional shapes as in a bus stop near xxx (on the way from Sumy to Kremenchuk, before Poltava) and the styles of mosaics are usually folk art, whereas in the Netherlands I don't recall seeing anything except boring glass + metal bus stops.

(*) By the way, I use both Russian and Ukrainian names of cities, it depends on when I got to be in a city, and one issue with using Ukrainian names is that then I don't know how to properly change the ending because that works a bit differently than in Russian, and I don't want to confuse myself too much until I know more Ukrainian, so I prefer not to change even in English, for now. Bila Tserkva vs. Belaya Tserkov for example, and transliteration into English is another problem caused by how messy English is in its rules.

17:15: Pause, tea + cookies + questions/talk about the above topics

Tea + cookies + talk.

17:30: Part 2 by Vlad, work in groups, something to experience how to see life differently: See positive about Ukraine by discussing interesting places in Ukraine.

This section is about seeing life differently.

This section will be about a practical way to better see opportunities in life and to more appreciate what you have, to realise good points that you possibly don't realise are good points in (your) life. From hobbies, interests, to for example start a business. In this case:

Vlad has designed this part, the purpose was to have a few groups, each of which made a choice for which place to 'promote' for tourism, so interesting, beautiful places.

Every groups held a short talk on what are the good points, showing pictures from the internet.Summary to come with listing of places that people suggested...

Further mentioned: Odessa catacombas, Sazhin Yar

18:15: End of part 2.

18:15: Tea + bread + jam from the Carpathians, pine cone jam + more + some honey from Vlad

It was more like 18:30...

Bread from Alyona + some Ukrainian delicacies for on bread: jam with pine cones (it is like eating a forest! ;-) ),

18:30: End of the meeting.

The end of the meeting took longer, I think a bit after 19:00...

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