Bicycle panniers
The panniers that I've been using for touring and daily use since mid 2013 are the 'mainstream MSX' panniers, ca. 26 l each, and smaller bags for the front of ca. 15 l each. I needed to replace the rear bags in 2021 as they were worn, the bottoms have holes, the material was cracked and some of the buckles were broken. After 5 years these issues started to appear but I continued to use them another 2 years. I describe my experiences with the MSX bags in detail and then describe what I was searching for in new panniers. After that I will review the new ones and the reasons for selecting the new ones that I bought.
Contents
Review of the Mainstream MSX panniers (big: 26l for the rear, small: 15l for the front)
See the page about a tour in 2013 on which I tested various equipment where describe the MSX panniers. I bought them mid 2013, used the rear panniers for more than 7 years, almost daily, for groceries, travelling, and hauling heavy stuff such as stones/concrete pieces to recycling. I only used the front panniers for touring. In the end one of the plastic clips holding one of the rear panniers on the rack snapped off, though that was not the first problem, there had been other issues going on for a while:
- The bottom of the bags had became partially see-through, layers of the fabric and outer smooth layer were separating, during the last 2 years or so.
- One of the rivets came loose, I replaced it with a bolt/nut.
- 2 of the clasps lost some pieces, the plastic became brittle and pieces snapped off.
These bags are ca. 26 litres each (size: width at the top 37.0 cm, depth 13.0 cm, height when open is ca. 52 cm), with a flap on top. The clasps on top can be attached to each other which means with the lid there are several ways to close it:
- Rolling the top then closing the lid over it, or letting the top stay loose above/beside the bag if packing a bit more that wouldn't fit with the top rolled several times.
- Just connecting the top clasps and letting the lid loose, and not rolling the lid. This way I can put my Scrambler 30 (30 litres) backpack into the pannier even if the backpack is completely full.
Some thoughts about ways to stow stuff and how to close the panniers
The way I use the MSX panniers is to put stuff such as groceries in them and then depending on how much is in there:
- If it's not too much stuff (that gets too high) then just attach the flap to the bottom section to cover everything up against rain (and against anything possibly falling out, though that has never happened on any terrain), with 1 or 2 of the straps.
- If the amount of stuff I put in gets too much to close the lid, or if I want to put in my 30 litre backpack which usually also means I can't close the lid, then just clip the clasps at the top together. and leave the flap loose. This means it's partially open on top (kept together a bit from the clasps at the 2 sides attaching to each other) which is not a problem unless there is heavy rain, and in return gives a lot of storage space.
So I never really use the roll top method in daily use as for my purposes it's not needed. Option 1 is good enough, option 2 is fairly open but with lots more space. I only used rolling to close the bags for touring trips.
An alternative to the flap is a strap across the bag such as the Buechel and Vaude bags have, but with quite a few of the bags listed above you cannot do that: Thule, Ortlieb, Arkel, and most of the Crosso bag types.
What next? (Choice to be made possibly in Feb. 2021)
I really like the MSX bags, but as the SL 55 CX red/black that I would want are not in stock at the manufacturer/seller (mainstream-msx.de) I went looking for other options to replace them. Btw, they are since end of Feb. 2021 available single rather than only as a pair (with accompanying price increase).
I contacted Atran Velo about their panniers for the AVS system. It wasn't clear whether that system is a mount system that is attached to any pannier for on any rack system (with an adapter if needed for this purpose), or only to Atran velo's own AVS racks. I haven't had a reply yet (still as of 2021-3-21, email was sent 2021-2-12 so now more than a month ago. I may make a video on this topic of companies not replying, but in the mean time:
2021-3-31: I made a list that you may find interesting, with replies (or non-replies) by companies to my emails. Update 2023-3-12: I never received a reply from Atran Velo...).
I had already looked around a few years ago and considered buying Crosso bags from Poland because I was looking for bags bigger than the MSX bigs, so which hold more than 26 litres per bag. A friend dissuaded me from buying them as "the hooks damage your rack". Well, plastic hooks of the MSX bags also damage my Tubus rear rack that I treated recently with rust converter on the afflicted places. Long ago I used a small single sided bag with hooks, and I used fabric (cotton?) adhesive tape by Tesa on the rack to protect it. Where can you get such tape these days? (so fabric is felt on the outside) I have some fabric handlerbar tape from Velox but that doesn't stick very well at all, nowhere near as well as that Tesa tape did... But I will use that when needed.
I have been considering the following, which are listed somewhat in decreasing order of how well I think they would work for my purposes:
- MSX: Made in Germany. The bags I bought, including the no longer made small front bags:
Proven reliable, good size. Should I wait for new stock to come in? Price increased from EUR 160,- per pair to EUR 85,- per bag (for the SL 55 CX, the version without the side pocket). Alternatively I could get the more expensive SL 55 ZX with side zippered pocket (which for me is not useful), at EUR 100 per bag.
- Arkel: Orca 45: Made in
CanadaChina (the mount is probably made in Canada). Manufacturer's image:
Best mounting system: Metal clips and metal plate to keep the top of the bag in shape along the rack's tube. Bag size is 22.5 litres per bag. I'd like slightly bigger bags. Roll top with clips going from the bag to the straps on that side and those have an adjustable strap length. This means you can set the bag size contrary to the Thule bags. Only sold in a pair. Price per pair is ca. EUR 220,- including all costs (this is my estimate incl. VAT and expected import duty which is not mentioned on their site, but perhaps Arkel has taken that into account? In that case it would be EUR 212). Some reviews state they are not fully waterproof. The little pocket on the outside is just stupid for panniers: Unnecessary.
- Crosso: There are various types: Dry, Twist, Expert: Made in Poland.
- There is a choice of a plastic clip system (similar to Vaude, MSX, Ortlieb etc.) or metal hooks. Around 30 litres per bag.
- Only available per pair.
- Price varies a lot depending on the version and clip type, from ca. EUR 64 to EUR 150. There are 3 versions, from cheapest to most expensive these are: The 'Dry' (with smooth exterior), the 'Twist' and the 'Expert' which has a lid and additional small bags that can be attached at the rear for e.g. waterbottles which in total means 66 l instead of 60 l.
Comments: These bags are not symmetrical, so one bag is meant for mounting on the left, the other bag is meant for mounting on the right hand side, this is for heel clearance and to not have the bottom very narrow, which many other bags are. For stowing stuff this is very good, but this means you may get heel clearance issues if you mount them the wrong way such as if you want to use 1 bag each of the pair on 2 bicycles and want both bags to be on the left, or on the right.
- Vaude: Aqua back/Aqua back deluxe: Made in Germany. Plastic clip system. Each bag is 25 litres. Individually available for ca. EUR 70/75 and ca. EUR 140/150 for a pair.
Comments: Some reviews state the mounting hook attachment at the bottom section is too fragile. Other than that, the mounting system clips on top look nice. The bags can be closed with 2 methods, clips/straps to the side (adjustable length), middle strap/clasp (adjustable length).
- Ortlieb: Back-roller classic: Made in Germany. Plastic click system, roll top, ca. 20 litres each (when rolled up). Only available per pair. Price: Ca. EUR 130 per pair.
Comments: Plastic clips can break and some people complain about this with these bags, though as with my experience with the MSX bags, those are likely exceptions, I loaded mine with heavy stuff lots of times and only after 7 years did one of the 4 clips break. I'm not sure if the clips are available separately, if so then it would be good to take a few spare ones on a long tour.
Not enough space, it is quite a bit smaller than the MSX bags.
- Ortlieb: Bike packer classic: Made in Germany. Plastic click system. These have a lid, ca. 20 litres per bag. Only available per pair. Ca. EUR 130 per pair.
Comments: Not enough space. There is no roll-top so you can't 'not close' and leave it open to get more space on short trips where being waterproof is not required.
- Ortlieb: The 'pro' versions of the above bags: Back-roller pro plus and Back-roller pro classic: Made in Germany. 2x 35 l is the biggest volume of all panniers but quite expensive at EUR 190 - EUR 210, quite a bit more than the Crosso Expert but no lid and for this price I'd like something more sturdy than the plastic mounting system for such big bags...
- Büchel (German company, but these bags are likely not made in Germany, or are they? I suspect they are rebadged):
- Closing type: Roll top
- Mounting system: Plastic clips, they look ok, some people said in the reviews that the bags can come loose from the rack on bumpy roads with light load in them.
- Closing system: Clips on top fixed to straps on the side. Strap with clip in the middle then goes over it.
- Pair or single, volume: Individually available at EUR 30 each, so EUR 60 for a pair, which is cheap. 25 litres per bag.
Not sure what to think of these... Well, on further reading the reviews on amazon.de, there are various reports of ripped canvas which make me think they may be a bit too flimsy for heavy duty use.
- Thule: (Swedish company, made in Sweden?): Shield pannier large:.
- Closing type: Roll top,
- Mounting system: Plastic clips, they look ok, easier to use than most clip systems such as from Ortlieb and MSX, and the clips will stay in place as they fix into preset positions (with the MSX bags the clips tend to move to one of the sides after a while no matter how hard I tighten the bolts), but are these clips and the hook at the bottom sturdy?
- Closing system: clips on top are fixed to straps/clips on the side, which I feel is a bit limiting in options (a single middle clasp/strap would be quicker for say grocery shopping). The size that you can close it to is fixed by where the straps/clips go, so the bag always has the same standard height when closed even if not rolled. This is different from esp. the MSX bags with which you can compress if needed/desired using the flap (which have adjustable strap lengths). Unless you use some short intermediate straps with clips on both sides to make this possible. That would be messy and shouldn't be needed.
- Pair or single: Only sold per pair. 25 litres per bag. ca. EUR 140,- for a pair.
Important good and bad points:
- MSX: The type that I would like is not available at the moment! The clips at the top can shift. I like the lids. Proven to work well for my uses, and to be reliable/strong enough.
- Arkel: Quite expensive, a little smaller than I would like, good mounting system.
- Crosso: I would be inclined to try the versions with hooks rather than the plastic clip system just to see how well they work. The hooks are simple but likely work well enough from reviews, and they are definitely much sturdier than the plastic clip systems on most other bags. Large storage space.
- Vaude: The closing system is fine and allows adjusting the volume of the bag as needed. You could just use the centre strap for groceries for ease of use. The mount of the bottom hook seems not good enough from various reviews
- Ortlieb standard bags: Too small
- Ortlieb pro bags: Don't appeal to me, for the price I would like a lid. Even better if it was removable as with the Crosso Expert.
- Buechel: I'm not sure that I would be able to rely on them.
- Thule: Shield pannier large: Too limited closing system.
So, what to choose?
2021-3-4: I ordered new bags and I will tell you soon which type on the list above I chose...
Reviews of the new bicycle bags that I bought in 2021, 2022
These will of course not be long term durability reviews, but they will be about a comparison with other bicycle panniers that I used, especially the MSX panniers, in use in ease of use, mounting, size, how to close them, how stiff or supple the material is, etc..
Review of the Crosso Expert 66
Manufacturer images:
Review finally 2023-3-2: I bought these panniers in March 2021, the version in black with hooks. I should have bought them in red! This also makes your bike stand out and thus easier to find again after leaving a shop, which was an advantage of using the Orca panniers in red, as I found out :)
Size: Very good, they are 30 liters for the main bag when rolled up, and when not rolled up I can easily put in my 35 litre back pack or a lot of groceries.
Clips/buckles: ways to close them: You roll up the top and close the buckles on the top to each other. You can also install the lid then close that on the bottom over the bag. This gives options similar to the MSX bags of closing the bag for rain while not bothering to roll them up.
These bags remain supply even in cold temperatures, in stark contrast to the MSX bags which are far stiffer and the colder it gets the more stiff they are.
I read some reports of the bags coming loose from the rack and that is a possibility with these hooks as the 3rd point which hooks to the rack at the bottom can become a bit loose. They are adjustable straps similar to what you have on say back packs for the straps so you can adjust the length so the should straps (and chest straps) fit you. I had one ride (with empty bags, but it can happen with full ones in the same way) where the straps had worked themselves loose a bit and a bag flew off on a bumpy road. So this is an issue, you need to check that the bottom strap is tight.
When riding in the city I usually don't roll them up but clip the top clips together so that my foot doesn't hit a bag as the top flares out when it is flat.
More to be added...
Likes: Supple even in winter. Very big, one of the cheapest.
Conclusion so far (2023-3-12): I like them. The size is excellent for me. If I buy another pair then I will buy them in red and probably with the clamp system. I can't say anything yet about longevity.
Review of the Arkel Orca 45
Review 2023-3-2: I bought a pair in summer 2022, in red. I first wanted to buy them in gray, then thought, as with the red PD-EF205 pedals, that red would stand out nicely. I like the bags in red, which has an advantage: it is very easy to find your bicycle again after leaving a shop! (in NL there are lots of bicycles near just about any shop) So I advise everyone in the area that I live to NOT buy any panniers in red, otherwise it will take me more time to find my bike! :)
The mounting system is the best of all that I tried but they don't have a lock which would be better. This is something I was thinking about since about 2 years ago when a relative first had 1 MSX bag stolen, then a year or so later it happened again...
Although advertised as being made in Canada the bags have a 'made in China' label inside, so possibly only the mounting system is made in Canada?
The bags are more stiff than the Crosso bags, and a bit smaller, so putting in my 35 litre back pack is less easy but still possible. They are less stiff than the MSX bags which are hard to get into a shape that is useful to put in something big, when it's freezing. I didn't have that issue with these bags, nor with the Crosso bags.
The hook at the bottom is attached via a sort of thick rubber band but it doesn't work with a Tubus Logo evo rack that I had on my touring bike, as it doesn't get tight to the place where I can hook it in when hanging the pannier on the rack's 2nd rail, beneath the top. As I didn't like this way of hanging anyway, as it meant the bag was too low, which interfered with being able to kick in the rear kickstand from the front while riding (I could only get my foot far enough to the rear underneath the bag with difficulty), I replaced the Tubus Logo rack with an Atranvelo Tour AVS, which has some advantages such as a wider upper area to put things on with straps, and a spring underneath which you can clamp say a coat or a sweater if you get too hot while riding.
Clips/buckles: You roll up the top then clip them to the buckles on the bottom. This means there is no intermediate option of leaving the bag open at the top but still somewhat safer against anything falling out by having the clip/buckles connect on top which act as a hindrance for anything coming out.
Size: I can put in my 35 litre backpack (leaving the top open) but it's less easy than with the Crosso 30 litre bags. It's good enough for most cases though, similar to the MSX bags.
Riding around in the city I often leave the bags half open, i.e. I clip the top clips to the bottom clips but don't roll up the bag.
More to be added...
Likes: Not too stiff in winter. Best mounting system I've seen so far.
Dislikes: No ability to semi-close with the clasps on top.
Conclusion so far (2023-3-12): I've used them enough to see no issues with the mounting system, it is the best system so far simply because of sturdiness. The bags are big enough for most purposes, the clasps could be better organised. The bags don't get stiff in winter, at least not as stiff as with the MSX bags where you need to do effort to open them up to put something in them. I can't say anything yet about longevity.
Comments about manufacturer's advertising videos
I was looking at the Vaude bags and a manufacturer video as I wanted to see if there is a clip on top or loop for a strap and it looks like there might be a loop for a strap but Jesus, F. Christ, that video by Vaude on their website is a piece of marketing trash! In it they showed several stowing options in a few seconds. Why not show properly how to use these bags! Why the need for annoying retardo background music? This is all fairly common though, not specific to Vaude. In just about all manufacturer's videos they don't show what you want to see! I made a comment about this quite a while ago in the bicycle bell section after seeing a video by Lezyne of their then new bicycle bells, which has music so you can't actually hear the bells! WTF??!!
Last modified: 2023-4-13
